VoIP VoIP    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  What do you want from a VOIP provider Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next          VoIP Forum Index -> VoIP View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:c318beea4e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com Quote: In message <5c146lF2utbdpU1@mid.individual.net "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote: "Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in message news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl Ivor Jones wrote: How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to advertise anyone or anything. Even if I was, this isn't a forum, but we've already had this discussion. Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all things voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A forum is any place where things can be discussed, not just a "bulletin board" type website. Live long and prosper, but stick to voip not linguistics. As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am *not* wrong. We are talking about *Usenet* convention and not dictionary definition. Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable. This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word. No, it is a newsgroup, in which a forum may take place. Quote: Usenet is a platform where groups are hosted in multiple locations using nntp format. Forums are web based, hosted in a single location using http access. *That* is the definition I apply and the only one I recognise. Then you are blind to the truth. No, you are. Quote: Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it further here, it has already been done to death elsewhere. I used to get angry at what I regarded as "misuse" of words such as "velocity" or "vector". To a mathematician or physicist, "velocity" means speed with a particular direction, and "vector" means a quantity that has both magnitude and direction. However, I had to recognise that ordinary people use "velocity" synonymously with "speed", and, to medical people, a "vector" can be a means of transport of a disease, for example. All those meanings are correct. Many words have multiple meanings. "Forum" is one such. Get used to it. Not in this case. Get used to it. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider <mymail@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:gg3p53liqe52primsc815drihvcihhn7o9@4ax.com Quote: On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:02:38 +0100, Dave Higton davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable. This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word. In Ivor's eyes it does there is a vast difference between Ivor's world and the real world . Then you are blind to the truth. Ivor is blind to everything he doesn't want to here, read or see . So plonk me, then you'll never have to read me again. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor RH Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5c2n1pF2u91a8U1@mid.individual.net... Quote: "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:voadnVJ6BMvumcHbnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@pipex.net Ivor Jones wrote: [snip] Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they are" says it all to me. If they were a reputable organisation they wouldn't hide. I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my company information on every post I make. Neither do I display a valid email address. Therefore by your definition Ivor, every message I post is spam. Not at all. However if you were to try and advertise your business here, that would be spam. If the OP was spam as you have said, you can tell us which company or website he was advertising? If you can not then the OP was not advertising his business and by your definition is not SPAM Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Desk Rabbit Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider Ivor Jones wrote: Quote: "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:voadnVJ6BMvumcHbnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@pipex.net Ivor Jones wrote: [snip] Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they are" says it all to me. If they were a reputable organisation they wouldn't hide. I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my company information on every post I make. Neither do I display a valid email address. Therefore by your definition Ivor, every message I post is spam. Not at all. However if you were to try and advertise your business here, that would be spam. So just where exactly did the OP advertise their business? By your own admission they did not give a web site nor an email address. An advert without any means of contacting the business does not seem very worthwhile. You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor RH Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5c3vsjF2vh0bgU2@mid.individual.net... Quote: As I said, take it or leave it. Please do not be so stupid Ivor this IS a forum . Even if it were, Ron, I'd say it wasn't, just to annoy you. Ivor Ivor So real discussion about about VOIP by the OP is seen as unworthy by you on the Newsgroup/Forum but using it for you petty personal wars to annoy people is deemed within the spec of the newsgroup? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:G8ednU3RDuo27cDbRVnytgA@pipex.net Quote: Ivor Jones wrote: "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:voadnVJ6BMvumcHbnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@pipex.net Ivor Jones wrote: [snip] Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they are" says it all to me. If they were a reputable organisation they wouldn't hide. I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my company information on every post I make. Neither do I display a valid email address. Therefore by your definition Ivor, every message I post is spam. Not at all. However if you were to try and advertise your business here, that would be spam. So just where exactly did the OP advertise their business? By your own admission they did not give a web site nor an email address. An advert without any means of contacting the business does not seem very worthwhile. I assume they are asking people to respond here, eventually a business contact will come along. It's happened before that way. Quote: You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. Not at all. Spam is still spam. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "RH" <rh@no-spicedham.exelsys.com> wrote in message news:f3jte6$kq3$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk Quote: "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5c3vsjF2vh0bgU2@mid.individual.net... As I said, take it or leave it. Please do not be so stupid Ivor this IS a forum . Even if it were, Ron, I'd say it wasn't, just to annoy you. Ivor Ivor So real discussion about about VOIP by the OP is seen as unworthy by you on the Newsgroup/Forum but using it for you petty personal wars to annoy people is deemed within the spec of the newsgroup? I didn't start it, the person who first called this group a forum did. Blame them. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor RH Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider Quote: I didn't start it, the person who first called this group a forum did. Blame them. maybe this forum on a newsgroup should be changed to uk.telecom.voip.preschool with logic like that Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor RH Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5c5pibF2updo3U1@mid.individual.net... Quote: I assume they are asking people to respond here, eventually a business contact will come along. It's happened before that way. You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. Not at all. Spam is still spam. What kind of daft Logic is that? Your saying a message or a thread is spam not because of what it says but what the thread might say in the future. So if no followup message of a commerical basis does appear from this sender? then the OP is not SPAM and your are Wrong So the same logic would tend to suggest that if *ANY* of your future posts show a one sided view of SIPAGTE which a user may think is commerically biased that your previous posts could be classed as SPAM. Just grow some balls and admit your wrong on this one, your wrong on this one and you know it, the newsgroup knows it. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "RH" <rh@no-spicedham.exelsys.com> wrote in message news:f3kdfb$ids$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk Quote: "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5c5pibF2updo3U1@mid.individual.net... I assume they are asking people to respond here, eventually a business contact will come along. It's happened before that way. You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. Not at all. Spam is still spam. What kind of daft Logic is that? Truth. Quote: Your saying a message or a thread is spam not because of what it says but what the thread might say in the future. So if no followup message of a commerical basis does appear from this sender? then the OP is not SPAM and your are Wrong So the same logic would tend to suggest that if *ANY* of your future posts show a one sided view of SIPAGTE which a user may think is commerically biased that your previous posts could be classed as SPAM. They could only be biased if I had a commercial interest in the company, which I don't. Quote: Just grow some balls and admit your wrong on this one, your wrong on this one and you know it, the newsgroup knows it. At least you said newsgroup. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "RH" <rh@no-spicedham.exelsys.com> wrote in message news:f3kcng$afh$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk Quote: I didn't start it, the person who first called this group a forum did. Blame them. maybe this forum on a newsgroup should be changed to uk.telecom.voip.preschool with logic like that Maybe so, but the statement holds. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Dave Higton Guest Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider In message <5c3vuqF2v9813U1@mid.individual.net> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote: Quote: "Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:c318beea4e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable. This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word. No, it is a newsgroup, in which a forum may take place. A forum can't "take place", Ivor. That's a logical nonsense. A forum can exist, even if it's an abstract existence. The newsgroup is the forum. Dave Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Desk Rabbit Guest Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider Ivor Jones wrote: Quote: "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:G8ednU3RDuo27cDbRVnytgA@pipex.net Ivor Jones wrote: "Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message news:voadnVJ6BMvumcHbnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@pipex.net Ivor Jones wrote: [snip] Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they are" says it all to me. If they were a reputable organisation they wouldn't hide. I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my company information on every post I make. Neither do I display a valid email address. Therefore by your definition Ivor, every message I post is spam. Not at all. However if you were to try and advertise your business here, that would be spam. So just where exactly did the OP advertise their business? By your own admission they did not give a web site nor an email address. An advert without any means of contacting the business does not seem very worthwhile. I assume they are asking people to respond here, eventually a business contact will come along. It's happened before that way. Assumpton - the mother of all fuck ups. Quote: You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. Not at all. Spam is still spam. So the Ivor definition of newsgroup spam based on what you have said in this thread, is that it is spam provided it advertises something (or not), has a valid email address (or not), has a web site (or not) and may at some point in the distant future lead to some possibility that there might just be the faint hint of a posting with some sort of commercial bias related to the original posting. Brilliant Ivor, just plain brilliant. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Desk Rabbit" <spam-me-not@example.com> wrote in message news:ro6dnRjjpqExZsDbRVnyhwA@pipex.net [snip] Quote: So the Ivor definition of newsgroup spam based on what you have said in this thread, is that it is spam provided it advertises something (or not), has a valid email address (or not), has a web site (or not) and may at some point in the distant future lead to some possibility that there might just be the faint hint of a posting with some sort of commercial bias related to the original posting. Brilliant Ivor, just plain brilliant. Who said it was my definition..? Spam is spam is spam, whoever defines it. Ivor Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ivor Jones Guest Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider "Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:0ca742eb4e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com Quote: In message <5c3vuqF2v9813U1@mid.individual.net "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote: "Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:c318beea4e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable. This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word. No, it is a newsgroup, in which a forum may take place. A forum can't "take place", Ivor. That's a logical nonsense. A forum can exist, even if it's an abstract existence. But not here. Quote: The newsgroup is the forum. No. The space in which messages are stored, on one or more servers on the internet, is a newsgroup. A forum can take place on it, but the group itself is not and never will be a forum. 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