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Chris Hopley
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

Ivor Jones wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to advertise
anyone or anything. Even if I was, this isn't a forum,
but we've already had this discussion.
Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all things
voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A forum is any
place where things can be discussed, not just a "bulletin
board" type website. Live long and prosper, but stick to
voip not linguistics.

As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am *not* wrong. We are
talking about *Usenet* convention and not dictionary definition.

Fortunately I don't frequent those nauseatic places.

Quote:

You cannot define human interaction in terms of the technology that
facilitates that interaction.

Quote:

Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it further here, it has
already been done to death elsewhere.

We can all play that game, Ivor:

'I see it now,' Alice remarked thoughtfully: 'and what are "toves"?'

'Well, "toves" are something like badgers - they're something like
lizards - and they're something like corkscrews.'

'They must be very curious-looking creatures.'

'They are that,' said Humpty Dumpty: 'also they make their nests under
sundials - also they live on cheese.'

From Through The Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll

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Ivor Jones
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message news:85709$465b6020$9163a40a$9137@news2.tudelft.nl

Quote:

Ivor Jones wrote:
"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message
news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to advertise
anyone or anything. Even if I was, this isn't a
forum, but we've already had this discussion.
Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all
things voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A forum
is any place where things can be discussed, not just
a "bulletin board" type website. Live long and
prosper, but stick to voip not linguistics.

As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am
*not* wrong. We are talking about *Usenet* convention
and not dictionary definition.

Fortunately I don't frequent those nauseatic places.

You're in one.

Quote:

Usenet is a platform where groups are hosted in
multiple locations using nntp format. Forums are web
based, hosted in a single location using http access.

*That* is the definition I apply and the only one I
recognise.

You cannot define human interaction in terms of the
technology that facilitates that interaction.

In this instance, I can.

Quote:

Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it
further here, it has already been done to death
elsewhere.

We can all play that game, Ivor:

[snip]

Irrelevant. This is a newsgroup, not a forum.

As I said, take it or leave it.

Ivor

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Chris Hopley
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

Ivor Jones wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message news:85709$465b6020$9163a40a$9137@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message
news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to advertise
anyone or anything. Even if I was, this isn't a
forum, but we've already had this discussion.
Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all
things voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A forum
is any place where things can be discussed, not just
a "bulletin board" type website. Live long and
prosper, but stick to voip not linguistics.
As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am
*not* wrong. We are talking about *Usenet* convention
and not dictionary definition.
Fortunately I don't frequent those nauseatic places.

You're in one.

Lame.

Quote:

Usenet is a platform where groups are hosted in
multiple locations using nntp format. Forums are web
based, hosted in a single location using http access.

*That* is the definition I apply and the only one I
recognise.
You cannot define human interaction in terms of the
technology that facilitates that interaction.

In this instance, I can.

Pray tell. How?

Quote:

Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it
further here, it has already been done to death
elsewhere.

So you can't even be bothered to repost established "truths"? Not even
links to conclusive arguments. That's really lame, Ivor.

Quote:

We can all play that game, Ivor:

[snip]

Irrelevant. This is a newsgroup, not a forum.

Not so x2. Post only news instead of discussing, unless you want to be
guilty of the "crime" you accuse others of!!!!!!

Quote:

As I said, take it or leave it.

Or else? Don't tell me: plonk! What have you got left when you plonk
everyone in "your" newsgroup just because they don't adhere to the same
definition of newsgroup and forum as you?

Ivor, accept modern life: you can cause a newsgroup to be established,
but you don't own it and you can't control it.

I'm sure you're a really nice guy otherwise, and I salute you.

Cordial greetings,
Chris

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Ivor Jones
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message news:64c04$465b71c8$9163a40a$20064@news1.tudelft.nl

Quote:

Ivor Jones wrote:
"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message
news:85709$465b6020$9163a40a$9137@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message
news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to
advertise anyone or anything. Even if I was,
this isn't a forum, but we've already had this
discussion.
Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all
things voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A
forum is any place where things can be discussed,
not just a "bulletin board" type website. Live
long and prosper, but stick to voip not
linguistics.
As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I
am *not* wrong. We are talking about *Usenet*
convention and not dictionary definition.
Fortunately I don't frequent those nauseatic places.

You're in one.

Lame.

Possibly, but true nonetheless.

Quote:

Usenet is a platform where groups are hosted in
multiple locations using nntp format. Forums are web
based, hosted in a single location using http
access. *That* is the definition I apply and the only one I
recognise.
You cannot define human interaction in terms of the
technology that facilitates that interaction.

In this instance, I can.

Pray tell. How?

I just have. Lame..? Perhaps, but still true.

Quote:

Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it
further here, it has already been done to death
elsewhere.

So you can't even be bothered to repost established
"truths"? Not even links to conclusive arguments. That's
really lame, Ivor.

It's already been done to death before. Repeating it is a waste of my time
as well as yours. It's all there if you care to find it and read it.

Quote:

We can all play that game, Ivor:

[snip]

Irrelevant. This is a newsgroup, not a forum.

Not so x2. Post only news instead of discussing, unless
you want to be guilty of the "crime" you accuse others
of!!!!!!

I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I am merely stating a fact.

Quote:

As I said, take it or leave it.

Or else? Don't tell me: plonk! What have you got left
when you plonk everyone in "your" newsgroup just because
they don't adhere to the same definition of newsgroup and
forum as you?

Who said I was going to do that..? Do you want me to..? Why don't you
"plonk" me, then you won't have to listen.

Quote:

Ivor, accept modern life: you can cause a newsgroup to be
established, but you don't own it and you can't control
it.

True. But it's still a *newsgroup* and not a forum.

Quote:

I'm sure you're a really nice guy otherwise, and I salute
you.

Or I could be an absolute bastard. It's totally irrelevant in this matter.

In any case, I'll be here long after you and everyone else has given up
trying to redefine this *group* so you might as well accept it now.

Ivor

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Desk Rabbit
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

Ivor Jones wrote:

Quote:

"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf5e52p.p8d.paul@challenger.my.home
On 2007-05-25, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
Indeed. But a company that uses a munged address and
doesn't provide a website where you can check out their
products is somewhat suspicious to my mind.
But they are not advertising anything nor are they
inviting people to contact them directly. They (whoever
they are) are asking a simple question on
uk.telecom.voip, a discussion group, probably to illicit
discussion regarding VoIP in the UK.

Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they are" says it all to
me. If they were a reputable organisation they wouldn't hide.

Ivor

I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my company information

on every post I make. Neither do I display a valid email address.
Therefore by your definition Ivor, every message I post is spam.

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Ivor Jones
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

"Desk Rabbit" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
news:voadnVJ6BMvumcHbnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@pipex.net

Quote:

Ivor Jones wrote:

[snip]

Quote:

Right. The part of your sentence above "whoever they
are" says it all to me. If they were a reputable
organisation they wouldn't hide.

I'm a reputable organisation but I don't display my
company information on every post I make. Neither do I
display a valid email address. Therefore by your
definition Ivor, every message I post is spam.

Not at all. However if you were to try and advertise your business here,
that would be spam.

Ivor

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NicHughes
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

On 28 May, 23:42, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:

Quote:

As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am *not* wrong. We are
talking about *Usenet* convention and not dictionary definition.

And as has already been posted on this thread the definition of spam
on usenet is well established and the OP was not spam by that
definition.

--
Nic

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Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

On Tue, 29 May 2007 00:10:33 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

Quote:

As I said, take it or leave it.

Please do not be so stupid Ivor this IS a forum .

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Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

On Tue, 29 May 2007 02:20:06 +0200, Chris Hopley
<chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Ivor, accept modern life: you can cause a newsgroup to be established,
but you don't own it and you can't control it.

But he thinks he does .

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Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

On Tue, 29 May 2007 08:52:48 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

Quote:

Who said I was going to do that..? Do you want me to..? Why don't you
"plonk" me, then you won't have to listen.

Maybe because you ARE a plonkER already this IS a FORUM
live with it .

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Dave Higton
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

In message <5c146lF2utbdpU1@mid.individual.net>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Hopley" <chris.hopley@gggggmail.com> wrote in
message news:81ac9$465b5815$9163a40a$6378@news2.tudelft.nl
Ivor Jones wrote:
How can I be spamming, I'm not trying to advertise
anyone or anything. Even if I was, this isn't a forum,
but we've already had this discussion.

Ivor, as much as I respect your knowledge of all things
voip, etc., you are wrong on this one. A forum is any
place where things can be discussed, not just a "bulletin
board" type website. Live long and prosper, but stick to
voip not linguistics.

As has been discussed ad nauseum in other places, I am *not* wrong. We are
talking about *Usenet* convention and not dictionary definition.

Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable.
This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word.

Quote:

Then you are blind to the truth.

Quote:

Take it or leave it, I do not propose to discuss it further here, it has
already been done to death elsewhere.

I used to get angry at what I regarded as "misuse" of words such
as "velocity" or "vector". To a mathematician or physicist,
"velocity" means speed with a particular direction, and "vector"
means a quantity that has both magnitude and direction. However,
I had to recognise that ordinary people use "velocity" synonymously
with "speed", and, to medical people, a "vector" can be a means of
transport of a disease, for example. All those meanings are
correct.

Many words have multiple meanings. "Forum" is one such. Get used
to it.

Dave

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Paul Cupis
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: [OT] Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

Dave Higton wrote:

Quote:

I used to get angry at what I regarded as "misuse" of words such
as "velocity" or "vector".

weight vs. mass - shakes head

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Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:02:38 +0100, Dave Higton
<davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Quote:

Usenet doesn't render an ordinary dictionary wrong or inapplicable.
This is a forum for discussion, in the general sense of the word.

In Ivor's eyes it does there is a vast difference between Ivor's world
and the real world .

Quote:

Then you are blind to the truth.

Ivor is blind to everything he doesn't want to here, read or see .

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Ivor Jones
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:mdso539qvo8djfneuqpotjp46o4tfpipnd@4ax.com

Quote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 08:52:48 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

Who said I was going to do that..? Do you want me to..?
Why don't you "plonk" me, then you won't have to listen.

Maybe because you ARE a plonkER already this IS a FORUM
live with it .

Oh how I wish you'd killfile me, Ron.

Ivor

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Ivor Jones
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: Re: What do you want from a VOIP provider

<clavox@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:98so53d647tmgjuspannsb3psa0rfue4v1@4ax.com

Quote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 00:10:33 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

As I said, take it or leave it.

Please do not be so stupid Ivor this IS a forum .

Even if it were, Ron, I'd say it wasn't, just to annoy you.

Ivor

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